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#koq2 buffer saved on Tue Jan 27
21:58:28 1998
*** Now talking in #koq2
Offense
<Jarv-KoQ> First off, I know
when things start to break down,
<Jarv-KoQ> then I tend not to
communicate as much...
<Jarv-KoQ> seems like the same
thing occurs with most everyone here.
<Jarv-KoQ> Offense must communicate
their positions more
<Jarv-KoQ> A few did a great
job about it,
<Jarv-KoQ> but for the most
part -- it seems our O was not behaving like it was in our practices...
agreed?
<Jarv-KoQ> We need to "regroup"
more
<Jarv-KoQ> and "acknowledge"
it and make an effort
<Jarv-KoQ> to be there
<Crotchless-KoQ> when things break down dante cusses a continuous stream
<Jenkins-KoQ> scout needs to scan & report enemy position
<Jarv-KoQ> I neded help from
Offense to fix our "problems."
<Jarv-KoQ> What else do you
think, upon review, that we could have done better?
<Jarv-KoQ> Open floor.
<Snare-KoQ> dont take the bridge
when 2 lpb snipers, no matter what
<Snare-KoQ> go over, camp the
snipers, then tell the offense its clear
<Jarv-KoQ> What if they close the water well area?
<Leiodes-KoQ> O needs to attack in numbers, more. not all the time butt in spurts, by doing so we can control the snipers better
<Kouros-KoQ> maybe we need to learn the "water jump" trick..
<Dante-KoQ> i can still
get to the sniper area even if they close the well
<Dante-KoQ> i can wj
<Jarv-KoQ> (1) Communicate
more,
<Jarv-KoQ> (2) Regroup More
(attack in #s)
<Jarv-KoQ> (3) Camp on lpb
snipers
<Snare-KoQ> cover each other
<Jarv-KoQ> (4) Cover each other more
<Hodge-KoQ> save nail grenades for when they are needed
<Snare-KoQ> listen to where ppl are, and try and help them
<Jenkins-KoQ> group up
<Jarv-KoQ> (5) Better use of grenades (in general)
<Jenkins-KoQ> communicate ENEMY POSITION
<Crotchless-KoQ> be careful where you throw grenades dont take friendly armor if you cna help it
<Kouros-KoQ> possibly change classes to force their defense to adapt to us, instead of us adapting to what they're doing...try to keep them off balance more..
<Snare-KoQ> some ppl need to take out sentries for scouts and or pyros
<Jarv-KoQ> Crotalus, did that happen much to you in the scrimmage?
<Crotchless-KoQ> it's always
a problem
<Crotchless-KoQ> when we bunch
up
<WarTribe-KoQ> report sentry locations, there hard to find in the shadows
<Jarv-KoQ> Really?
<Jarv-KoQ> (6) Report Sentry locations and take them out!
<Snare-KoQ> if a scout will tell me where sentry is, i can usually take them out first try, so if we time it right, scout canmake it farther into base
<Dante-KoQ> i think that if we can control the bridge we can get to their fort with 200 armor and have a muchg better chance to cap
<WarTribe-KoQ> i may die 3 time just to find where it is
<Crotchless-KoQ> slow nail scouts can take out sentrys as fast as rockets
<Jenkins-KoQ> scout is good sentry killer
<Crotchless-KoQ> medics faster
<Snare-KoQ> yeah, we all need to practice that, killing sentries as scout
<Jarv-KoQ> Ok, we have 6 good points...
<Snare-KoQ> use zoom scripts if needed (i do)
<Jarv-KoQ> anything else for offense?
<Snare-KoQ> i miss the demoman clearing things out
<Leiodes-KoQ> same here Snare
Defense
<Jarv-KoQ> Now lets focus on
defense...
<Jarv-KoQ> I know a huge
tactical error I made is to
<Jarv-KoQ> not protect the
ramp area
<Crotchless-KoQ> i saw a demoman
jump the elevator with a single pipe i need to work it out
<Jenkins-KoQ> engineer cant
do it alone
<Jarv-KoQ> and their Scouts had
free access into our base
<Jarv-KoQ> Yes he can
<Jarv-KoQ> I did it when I switched
over
<Jarv-KoQ> to eng in game #2
<Jarv-KoQ> You can do it fine
by yourself...
<Jarv-KoQ> we can't ever leave
it open again.
<Snare-KoQ> soldier or demoman works to, just not as good for scouts
<Cadrys-KoQ> eng cant do gun alone in ramp room, needs floater soldier
<Crotchless-KoQ> build a dispenser on the elevator to hold it up :)
<WarTribe-KoQ> i wouldnt mind guarding the spiral
<Cadrys-KoQ> Jarv, by then the
heavies were ignoring the ramp or something, had steady stream in basement
<Cadrys-KoQ> with no warning
of spiral vs elevator
<Jarv-KoQ> Cadrys, I had numerous
kills
<Jarv-KoQ> as an engineer in
the 2nd match
<Cadrys-KoQ> *shrug* last few games, I've spent more time respawning after getting killed while rebuilding gun
<Jarv-KoQ> Knowing that we
will always atleast station
<Jarv-KoQ> someone on our
ramps (Antonin's biggest gripe about our D)
<Snare-KoQ> did anyone notice
where tominator put sentry?
<Snare-KoQ> it may be more effective
<Jarv-KoQ> Yeah I noticed that
too
<Jarv-KoQ> mixed feelings
<Jarv-KoQ> but worth a try
<Jarv-KoQ> You what is the minimum
number of people
<Jarv-KoQ> that we can use to
protect our flag?
<Jarv-KoQ> we MUST protect our
ramp...
<Jarv-KoQ> Open Floor.
<Jenkins-KoQ> minimum
<Jenkins-KoQ> 3
<Cadrys-KoQ> (1) O must
advance and damage their O incoming
<Cadrys-KoQ> min 3, four much
safer
<Jenkins-KoQ> but,
<Jenkins-KoQ> that's not including
a slot for a sniper
<Jenkins-KoQ> hehe
<Jenkins-KoQ> demo, soldier,
pyro/soldier
<Jenkins-KoQ> or
<Jenkins-KoQ> 2 demos, soldier
<Jenkins-KoQ> then me (soldier)
would roam basement
<Jenkins-KoQ> and eng would
cover ramps
<Jenkins-KoQ> no
<Jenkins-KoQ> hwguy must be
stationary
<Jenkins-KoQ> he's too slow
<Jenkins-KoQ> only one spot
for him
<Kouros-KoQ> it's a natch for the flagroom..
<Leiodes-KoQ> I would like to see us try the 2 demo's in the basement, see how effective it is
<Crotchless-KoQ> scouts run around hw
<Snare-KoQ> gotta get buy soldier and demo pipes first though
<Cadrys-KoQ> Im curious, do we ever use detpacks as part of D?
<Snare-KoQ> hwguy prob is one concussion makes him useless
<Jenkins-KoQ> here's what I'd
do
<Jenkins-KoQ> 2 demos
<Jenkins-KoQ> soldier roaming
<Jenkins-KoQ> demos each pipe
3 or 4 pbombs in choke pts
<Jenkins-KoQ> spiral exit
<Jenkins-KoQ> and elevator shaft
<Jenkins-KoQ> soldier roams
<Jenkins-KoQ> they can collapse
back in if the outer shell is breached
<Snare-KoQ> elevator should be
ok with eng
<Snare-KoQ> we need a demo at
falg hall at all times
<Jenkins-KoQ> ok
<Jenkins-KoQ> one at flag hall
<Jenkins-KoQ> one at spiral
exit
<Jenkins-KoQ> soldier roams
<Jenkins-KoQ> spiral guard gets
2 pipes
<Snare-KoQ> soldier at spial works good, thats what DV does
<Jenkins-KoQ> goalie gets 5
<Snare-KoQ> he can see their
feet before they can shoot at him
<Snare-KoQ> i think demo at
flag, all pipes, soldier aspiral exit, and soldier roamin basement would
work great
<Cadrys-KoQ> soldier at spiral worked well vs DV once in place
<Snare-KoQ> eng lets basement know when gun down, then romaing soldier covers elv
<Jenkins-KoQ> sounds good
<WarTribe-KoQ> i think pyro in
spiral is better. he can easily stand in a scouts way, while flameing
<WarTribe-KoQ> and use rockets
<Snare-KoQ> anyone notice how i used pipes in our 5 on 5 scrimmage?
<Crotchless-KoQ> I think we may be placing a little too much enphasis on the DV scrim. Remember we had a lot of crippled players
<Leiodes-KoQ> Good point wart
<Snare-KoQ> not ideal, but i
think switiching between 2 pipe setups keeps them off guard
<Snare-KoQ> soldier at spiral
exit is better i think
<WarTribe-KoQ> i have been doing it to cads and danta wall week
<Crotchless-KoQ> pyro can't take out a scout fast enough
<WarTribe-KoQ> stand infrount of them, and they just keep running into you
<Snare-KoQ> but we should try it
<WarTribe-KoQ> while i shoot
flames
<WarTribe-KoQ> i was surprised
how fast scouts die in flames
Ant's suggestions
<Jarv-KoQ> here's a quickie
of what Ant
<Jarv-KoQ> adds to our D:
<Jarv-KoQ> (1) can't abandon
ramp
<Jarv-KoQ> (2) cover more
chokes
<Jarv-KoQ> (3) he doesn't
think we should run a pro-offense set, that we should always have more
people on D than O in a 10x10 setting
<Jarv-KoQ> Offense
<Jarv-KoQ> (1) they didnt
seem to work together well
<Jarv-KoQ> (2) they let DV
scouts pass them up too easily
<Jarv-KoQ> (3) they need
to vary up attack front.. he thinks we should use the grate area more than
the sniper loft.
<Jarv-KoQ> Those are his opinions.
<Jarv-KoQ> Anyway,
<Jarv-KoQ> I think we had some
good ideas here tonight
<Jarv-KoQ> I will save this
buffer
<Jarv-KoQ> and connect it to
our websiet
<Jarv-KoQ> so we can use it
for references
<Jarv-KoQ> Anyone wish to add
anything?
<WarTribe-KoQ> think placeing pyro in spiral is good idea
<Cadrys-KoQ> two guys working together are ten times, not two, more effective than loner
<Snare-KoQ> 4/6 works fine for lesser clans, but for the big boys, AA, >V<, IC, APr, we are gonna need offense
<Kouros-KoQ> comm is key
<Cadrys-KoQ> ...if your offensive line pushes their line back, you win?
<Leiodes-KoQ> yes
<Snare-KoQ> thats what AA does consitently
<WarTribe-KoQ> aa plays apr tomorrow
<Dante-KoQ> as a whole they are better dm players
Weekly Scrimmage with DV
<Jarv-KoQ> using Thursday as a regular Scrimmage/CA day with DV?
<Leiodes-KoQ> cool
<Jenkins-KoQ> only
<Kouros-KoQ> cool by me
<Cadrys-KoQ> works for me
<Dante-KoQ> k
<Jenkins-KoQ> if we scrimm as
often as we CA
<Jenkins-KoQ> yeah
<Jarv-KoQ> Dunno about that
<Jarv-KoQ> Anyway,
<Kouros-KoQ> maybe a 30min CA, and a 30min scrim?
<Snare-KoQ> CA is fun, but it wastes alot of time
<Jarv-KoQ> DV may want to scrim this Thursday night as well
<Snare-KoQ> 75% of time your are waiting
<Jarv-KoQ> so we might have 3
scrims on Thursday
<Jarv-KoQ> which would be VERY
busy for us,
<Jarv-KoQ> but good too.
End of #koq2 buffer Tue Jan 27 21:58:28 1998
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